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Other Personnel In Incident: Charles Alva Dale (missing)
Source: Compiled by Homecoming II Project (919/527-8079) 01 April 1991 from one or more of the following: raw data from U.S. Government agency sources, correspondence with POW/MIA families, published sources, interviews. Copyright 1991 Homecoming II Project.
REMARKS: DISAPPEARED OVER VINH BINH
SYNOPSIS: At 0317 hours on June 9, 1965, 1Lt. Charles A. Dale, pilot; and SP4 David S. Demmon, electronic sensor operator, departed Vung Tau in an OV1C (serial #61-2687) on a mission. The nature of the mission is not included in public record, but was undoubtedly a standard battlefield surveillance mission, or, as the 765th Transportation Battalion was primarily aircraft maintenance and support, it might have been a test of equipment onboard the aircraft.
The OV1C maintained surveillance using infrared detection equipment and a forward-aimed camera (which proved especially useful since the Viet Cong relied heavily on darkness to conceal their activities).
Standard proceedure for the OV1C was to periodically fly over a known location to update the navigation computer. One such update, about 87 minutes after takeoff placed Dale and Demmon over Vung Tau. At this time, he was headed to a second mission area in Vinh Binh Province, South Vietnam.
Somewhere over the U Minh forest, the aircraft was shot down. Search and rescue forces sighted two men wading out of the water and the Viet Cong capturing them, but positive identification was prevented by weather. However, Demmon and Dale were the only two Americans shot down that dayu. Dale was declared Missing in Action, while Demmon was classified Prisoner of War. It was felt that the enemy knew the fates of both men, alive or dead.
Reports relating to Dale and Demmon were received as late as 1970, both together and separately. Both men were seen alive by intelligence sources in the hands of the Viet Cong. One defector provided the phoenetic name "Phyan De Mann", which translates to "Family name of De Manh" (possibly meaning "Demmon").
In 1971, Demmon was seen alive in captivity. A Viet Cong guard, who stated that he had guarded American POWs from September to December 1965, stated he saw two men he believed to be Demmon and Dale in his camp. The families of both men believed they were captured, and eagerly awaited their release at the end of the war.
When the war ended, however, and 591 Americans were released from communist prisons in Souteast Aisa, Dale and Demmon were not among them. The Vietnamese never acknowledged their existence, nor did their names appear on lists provided by the Vietnamese of prisoners who had died in captivity.
In 1987, evidence of a large number of Americans being held in China began to surface in the private sector. It was said that these Americans were the "property" of a number of pro-China Vietnamese officials who had fled Vietnam in the wake of a stronger national sympathy to the Soviet Union. Charles Alva Dale, it was said, was serving as a houseboy to one of these officials.
The reports could not be verified. Dale and Demmon's families still wonder where they are. They don't know whether to hope they died that day in June 1965, or to hope they survived, and are alive still. If they survived, what must they have gone through? And what must they think of the country they so proudly served?
Charles A. Dale was promoted to the rank of Major and Demmon to the rank of Staff Sergeant during the period they were maintained Missing and Prisoner.
Additional Synopsis from Task Force Omega:
The Grumman OV1C Mohawk arrived in Vietnam in 1962 with various models serving continuously throughout the war. It became an increasingly familiar sight from one end of Vietnam to the other. This twin engine aircraft was handy when only short, rough runways were available and ground units needed almost instantaneous photo coverage. Gradually increasingly effective sensors and radars were produced including side-looking aerial radar (SLAR). Further, surveillance techniques using infrared detection equipment and a forward-aimed camera proved especially useful since the Viet Cong relied heavily on darkness to conceal their activities. The Mohawk also had the ability to carry both offensive armament and defensive weapons. This made the sturdy OV1C not only an excellent FAC and intelligence gathering aircraft, but one which could give close air support to ground troops in need of assistance.
At 0317 hours on 9 June 1965, then 1st Lt. Charles A. Dale, pilot; and SP4 David S. Demmon, electronic sensor operator, departed Vung Tau Airfield in an OV1C (serial #61-2687) on a reconnaissance mission. During the first communications check, Charles Dale reported having difficulty with his communications system. Radio contact was lost, then regained with Saigon radar control at 0449 hours. Standard operating procedure for the Mohawk was to periodically fly over a known location to update the onboard navigation computer. One such update took place 87 minutes after takeoff and placed them over Vung Tau, which was located on the coast of South Vietnam approximately 35 miles southeast of Saigon. Charles Dale notified the communications center they were heading to a second mission area in Vinh Binh Province. This was the last radio communication Saigon's control center had with 1st Lt. Dale or SP4 Demmon.
Somewhere over the U Minh forest, the aircraft disappeared and was not heard from again. At 0717 hours, the aircraft was declared overdue at the estimated time their fuel would have been exhausted. Immediately extensive aerial search and rescue (SAR) operations were initiated and centered over an area covered by triple canopy jungle and extensive rivers, canals and waterways approximately 50 miles south-southwest of Saigon and 10 to 15 miles due east of Vin Loi, Vinh Binh Province, South Vietnam. SAR efforts failed to find any sign of the Mohawk or its crew. At the time formal search efforts were terminated, Charles Dale and David Demmon were listed Missing in Action.
Almost immediately after the loss, intelligence reports of sightings of unnamed caucasians who had been captured by the VC and were being held in a prison camp in the general area of the Mohawk's loss were received by the US military. These reports were correlated to 1st Lt. Dale and SP4 Demmon and copies of the reports were placed in both men's casualty files.
Some of these communist prison camps were actually way stations the VC used for a variety of reasons. Others were regular POW camps. Regardless of size and primary function, conditions in the VC run camps frequently included the prisoners' being tied at night to their bamboo bunks anchored by rope to a post in their small bamboo shelters. In others they were held in bamboo cages, commonly referred to as tiger cages, and in yet other camps the dense jungle itself provided the bars to their cage. There was rarely enough food and water to sustain them, and as a result, the Americans suffered from a wide variety of illnesses in addition to their injuries and wounds.
Several intelligence reports relating to 1st Lt. Dale and SP4 Demmon continued to surface well into 1970. These reports documented that at times both men were being held together, and at other times were being held separately. Based on these multiple independent reports, there is no doubt that both men were seen alive by several Controlled American Sources (CAS), and they were in the hands of the Viet Cong. Also in 1970, a visitor to a Cambodian prison camp claimed to have seen an American named Demmon and that person was able to identify David's photograph. During this same time frame, a defector provided the phonetic name "Phyan De Mann", which translates to "Family name of De Manh".
In December 1970, a prisoner identified SP4 Demmon's photograph as the picture of an individual imprisoned in a POW camp in Kampong Cham Province, Cambodia. This led to David Demmon's status being immediately upgraded from Missing in Action to Prisoner of War. Another report was received in March 1971 stating that SP4 Demmon was alive in a prison at Kratie, Cambodia in January 1970. This source was given a polygraph that confirmed the information being provided was truthful.
In 1987, evidence of a large number of Americans being held in China began to surface in the private sector. It was reported that these Americans were the "property" of a number of pro-China Vietnamese officials who had fled Vietnam in the wake of a stronger national alliance with the Soviet Union. These reports bore a striking resemblance to a number of intelligence reports documenting Charles Alva Dale serving as a houseboy for a Chinese General in southern China that were received by the US government beginning as early as the late-1970's.
In April 1991 the US government released a list of Prisoners of War and Missing in Action who were known to be alive in enemy hands and for whom there is no evidence that he or she died in captivity. This list, commonly referred to today as the USG's "Last Known Alive" list, included both Charles Dale and David Demmon.
In March 1992, a US team from the Joint Task Force for Full Accounting (JTFFA) traveled to Vinh Binh Province to investigate this loss incident. Team members interviewed residents living in the reported area of loss who provided information about the downing of an American aircraft that the team correlated to the OV1C flown by Charles Dale and David Demmon. Local villagers stated that the aircraft crashed, and the bodies of the aircraft's two occupants washed up on the shore where they were buried by other local residents. The team members were taken to an area where the Americans had been buried, but all efforts to locate the reported gravesites were unsuccessful.
Based on the numerous live sighting reports of SP4 Demmon and 1st Lt. Dale in captivity and being moved through several POW camps, there is no doubt they were captured and in under the control of the VC. If either soldier died under the direct control of the VC, there is also no question the Vietnamese could be return his remains to his family, friends and country any time they had the desire to do so. However, if David Demmon and Charles Dale continued to survive, as indicated by the continuing intelligence reports collected by our government, their fate like that of other Americans who remain unaccounted for in Southeast Asia, could be quite different.
Since the end of the Vietnam War well over 21,000 reports of American prisoners, missing and otherwise unaccounted for have been received by our government. Many of these reports document LIVE American POWs remaining captive throughout Southeast Asia TODAY.
Military men in Vietnam and Laos were called upon to fly and fight in many dangerous circumstances, and they were prepared to be wounded, killed or captured. It probably never occurred to them that they could be abandoned by the country they so proudly served.
[bits0117.98 01/19/98]
NATIONAL ALLIANCE OF FAMILIES
FOR THE RETURN OF AMERICA'S MISSING SERVICEMEN
WORLD WAR II - KOREA - COLD WAR - VIETNAM
DOLORES ALFOND -- VOICE/ FAX 425-881-1499
LYNN O'SHEA -------- VOICE/FAX 718-846-4350
E-MAIL ---------------- PGGK94A@PRODIGY.COM
WEB SITE -------------- http://www.nationalalliance.org
BITS 'N' PIECES JANUARY 17, 1998
##############
How time changes the story - Captured, Held and Moved to Cambodia or
Dead in a Sandy Grave?
On March 17th, 1971, the Joint Personnel Recovery Center (JPRC) issued
a memo Recommending a status change be considered an Army MIA. The memo
reads:
1. Reference DEMMON, David S., SSG [data] MIA 9 June 1965.
2. "On 11 Dec 70 a JPRC representative met with a Vietnamese refugee,
[redacted] concerning the subject of PW's. A that time source stated a
PW by the name of Demmon was being held in Cambodia. Source stated that
he had seen Demmon several times but the last time was 1 December 1970."
3. "On 7 January 1971, [redacted] positively identified SSG David S.
Demmon out of a display of photographs as being the PW mentioned above."
4. Subject was given a polygraph examination on 12 March 1971 (Enclosure
1) with positive results.
5. Based upon the evidence reiterated in paragraph 2 through 4, the JPRC
is of the opinion that SSG David S. Demmon is now a captive of the Viet
Cong. The JPRC recommends a change in status of SSG DEmmon from MIA to
captured be considered.
The memo is signed Gerald E. Mc Ilmoyle, Lt. Col. USAF, Director, JPRC
A second memo dated 6 April 1971 to the Chief, Casualty Division,
Department of the Army, Washington D.C. states:
1. Reference Chief, Casualty Division, Department of the Army message
DTG 012005Z Mar 71.
2. As requested by reference message, following additional information
is forwarded
a. COMUSMACV message DTG 091418Z Jun 65 is the casualty report
concerning SGT. David S. Demmon. Casualty Branch DA message
DTG 102000z Jun 66 made official determination of SGT. David S.
Demmon as missing.
b. In April 1966 a Viet Cong rallier, that had served as a guard at
a detention camp for U.S. prisoners from mid September 1965 to
about 20 December 1965, gave a description of a PW that fit Sgt.
Demmon (Inclosure 1). This information is not considered
conclusive.
c. In early December 1970, JPRC received information that a
Vietnamese refugee from Cambodia had information concerning four
U.S. prisoners of war (PW). Source provided the phonetic name
"Phan de Manh" which translates to "family name de Manh".
(Inclosure 2), as that of one of the prisoners. Source stated
he got name from the prisoner while talking to him on the first
of December 1970. JPRC researched its MIA/POW biographic files
and determined that the name de Manh could be Demmon. On 7
January 1971 source positively identified SGT. Demmon from a
display of a dozen pictures shown to him. Based on sources
information and that camp was located in village in Cambodia a
PW raid was conducted by ARVN troops on 17 January 1971. PW's
were not rescued but later indications are that the PW's possibly
were in the village in an underground bunker during the raid,
and subsequently have been moved to an unknown location.
d. The source was given polygraph examination on 12 March 1971 and
this examination is the only recorded testimony establishing his
credibility.
3. The above details are the extent of the information concerning SGT.
David S. Demmon held by JPRC. Based on this, the JPRC recommends a
change of status of SGT. Demmon from MIA to captured."
Credible evidence of capture and detention, a positive photo
identification and a favorable polygraph exam all led JPRC to recommend
a change in status for Sgt. Demmon. So credible was the evidence that
a rescue mission was launched. After the failed rescue, additional
information led JPRC to believe the POWs were moved. So, where is David
Demmon?
Jump ahead to message traffic dated 22 September 1989, dealing with the
"Translation of the Vietnamese Investigation Case List" during the
28-30 August 1989 technical Meeting in Hanoi." In the section titled
"Cases in which death clearly occurred but not remains have been
recovered," Sub Category "Joint Activities" we find a reference to David
Demmon and his crewmate Charles Dale. Of the two the report states
"Both men died and were buried in beach sand where there are not longer
any signs of the grave. Proposed conclusion: Grave location no longer
known."
Captured, Held and Moved to Cambodia or Dead in a Sandy Grave, you
decided?
#############
From deposition summary of Eugene F. Tighe, Jr., Senate Select Committee
on POW/MIA Affairs February 27th, 1992 - Present Neil Kravits, J.
William Codinha (JWC) -
JWC: "Do you think that the policy by the Administration of declaring
that there were no more POWs, that they were all dead, set in motion a
practice by the services and by the DIA that made that a reality, so
that it became a self fulfilling prophecy and nobody was going to look
for these people?"
Tighe: "No doubt about it..."
JWC: "Did you feel that the military services were reaching out to DIA
for all the information DIA had before they were making these
decisions?"
Tighe: "Nope. The Only time I think they were interested is when they
had a wife or widow on their hands who was giving them a hard time and
they were trying to drag something out, a bone to throw or something of
that nature to satisfy the widow."
===================
Bracelet teachers student and teacher about Vietnam soldier
JONATHAN VAN FLEET
The Telegraph
NASHUA, N.H. (AP) - Walter Freeman's hands trembled as he typed an
electronic message to the family of a man he has thought about since he was
a child.
Maybe this would be the contact that he has sought for so long, he thought.
Maybe he would be able to return the steel bracelet with David Demmon's name
on it that he was given so many years ago. Perhaps he would just have a
conversation with the parents of the man who never came back from the
Vietnam War.
It started out as one of a number of extra-credit assignments that Freeman,
an English teacher at Elm Street Junior High School, gave to his students a
few weeks ago. It wound up teaching a young woman valuable lessons about the
Vietnam War, and giving Freeman valuable information about Demmon and a
renewed hope of reaching out to his family.
Fifteen-year-old Meredith Lustig did her research over a week's time and
then wrote a paper about what she found. Freeman didn't even look at what
she had written when she handed it in. Instead, he put it in his
extra-credit folder with the other papers. He had offered the assignment
before and no one had taken it.
When he began reading, he was astonished. In just a few hours, Lustig had
found out more about Demmon than Freeman ever knew. And finally he had a
contact for the soldier's family.
"It never occurred to me to take the tack that Meredith did," Freeman said.
"She made a connection I couldn't imagine. I was stunned."
The project was just one of the ways that Freeman tries to make learning in
his ninth-grade English classroom more personal.
Lustig's mother used to have a bracelet, too. That's what first interested
her about the assignment.
"Even if I hadn't found a contact, I would have been pleased that I learned
something I didn't know before," Lustig said.
Before she did the project, she knew little about the war in Vietnam. When
she was done, she felt for the young men who fought and died there.
"I didn't know whether to feel afraid that could happen again, or to feel
sorry for these people whose country almost gave up on them," she said.
"It's scary to think there were kids just a few years older than me that
were sent to fight for their country, and that could happen again now."
She never expected the assignment to affect her as much as it did.
Freeman was 12 in 1972 when his father gave him the nickel bracelet that had
the name and rank of David S. Demmon printed on it, with the date June 9,
1965.
The bracelets were mass-produced to bring attention to the plight of
soldiers who were prisoners of war or missing in action. Demmon had already
been missing for years, and Freeman wore the bracelet every day.
Back then, he thought about Demmon as a rugged, heroic soldier. On one
corner of the bracelet is a small hole. Freeman thinks that's because Demmon
was believed to be a prisoner of war.
The bracelet is no longer a perfect oval. The soft metal has been bent, and
it is slightly out of shape. As the years went on, Freeman thought about
Demmon and wanted to learn more about the man whose name he wore around his
wrist.
Several years after the end of the war, newspapers were printing the names
of prisoners of war, and those who had been missing in action who were
either returned home or their remains found. Freeman scanned the lists of
names every day, searching for Demmon's name.
Eventually, Freeman stopped wearing the bracelet, but he never threw it away
or stopped thinking about Demmon. He took the bracelet to college. He kept
it after he was married. It was valuable to him on a personal level. He was
never able to throw it in a box and put it in the attic.
Just a few years ago, when Freeman was watching the movie "Apollo 13," he
noticed one of the characters was wearing an MIA bracelet. He was reminded
of Demmon.
With the help of the Internet, Freeman did some searching and found a bit of
information on Demmon. He learned Demmon was from Venice, Calif., and had
been declared killed in action. He posted a message on a Web site dedicated
to the memory of veterans killed in Vietnam.
He then received a response from another man who also wore Demmon's
bracelet. He received a photograph and saw Demmon's face for the first time.
e stared at the photograph for a long time. His childhood image of the
rugged soldier began to fade. "He was just a kid," said Freeman, now 41. "He
was just an ordinary guy."
He tried to picture Demmon, who was 24 when he was listed as missing in
action, walking and talking, and imagined what his personality would be
like. "I tried to picture what he was going through," Freeman said.
Freeman also searched online in California phone books for Demmon's family,
but was unable to locate them.
But it wasn't until Lustig did her project that Freeman found out that
Demmon was a helicopter electronic sensor operator headed to a mission in
Vinh Binh province in South Vietnam when his aircraft was shot down over the
U Minh forest.
Lustig's research also revealed that rescue forces sighted two men wading
out of the water and the Viet Cong capturing them, but positive
identification was prevented by weather.
She found this information on the Web at www.powmiaff.org and
www.thewall-usa.com, where she also found an e-mail address for Demmon's
family.
The new information has meant a lot to Freeman. "I was very moved by it," he
said. "After all these years, to have a chance to hear from the family, it
might bring some closure."
Almost two weeks have gone by and he hasn't heard back from the family.
"As the days went by, I expected almost an immediate reply," Freeman said.
Since sending the e-mail, Freeman learned it is bad etiquette to return a
bracelet before the soldier or his remains have come home.
The bracelets, which were first distributed by a Los Angeles-based student
organization known as the POW/MIA Bracelet Campaign for VIVA (Voices in
Vital America), came with the pledge "until he comes home."
Still, Freeman wonders if Demmon's family may want the bracelet back, or
just want to talk to someone who has thought about Demmon for all these
years.
"I felt like I should return this to them somehow," Freeman said. "It's a
token, but it's so symbolic. Over the years, I've thought about it thousands
of times, but it doesn't belong to me."
Freeman will feel loss by giving the bracelet back, because it has meant so
much to him all these years, but he feels it's the right thing to do.
"I wish I could just give it to his mother or father or wife, learn a little
more about him, and I guess put him to rest," Freeman said. "I feel it was
meant to go back to them. The feelings behind the bracelet will always stay
with me. The most important thing is they know their son or husband was not
forsaken or forgotten."
He also hopes that other people may find out that resources exist to help
find the families of the men whose names appear on the bracelets.
If he doesn't get a reply from Demmon's family, he will continue searching
and posting information on Web sites.
"I think there's more," Freeman said. "Whether it comes from contact with
the family or talking to a soldier who served with him. I couldn't just
throw him away."